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DIY Lifter - An Electrohydrodynamic Thruster (EHDT)The diagram below shows a EHDT in its most basic form. It consists of a fine wire, suspended above a sheet of Aluminium foil, by a lightweight insulating support such as balsa wood. If a high voltage DC source is connected as shown, a thrust will be produced, propelling the device in the direction of the positive wire. This thrust is due the motion of air, or any other dielectric (insulating) fluid around the device, as described below.
In their mad rush from the ion emitter to the smooth negative electrode, the positive ions bump into neutral air molecules-air particles without electric charge. The force exerted on them by the electric field is offset by the force of friction caused by collisions of the ions with the neutral air molecules. As a result, ions drift through the air gap with an approximately constant velocity Vd, that is proportional to the electric field given by Vd=kE, where the proportionality constant K is called the ion mobility, the highest the value the more mobile (faster) and the less friction is offered.
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| zoom zoom | Friday, 26th May 2006 10:18am - No.73 |
| did anybody ever establish the efficiency of the motor? | |
| RMCybernetics | Sunday, 28th May 2006 7:29pm - No.77 |
| There is more information available at the link below. ElectroHydroDynamic Propulsion | |
| Alex McCown | Saturday, 14th July 2007 3:14pm - No.1443 |
| the output of that kind of flyback is dc already only the disk shaped ones are ac | |
| RMCybernetics | Sunday, 15th July 2007 1:37pm - No.1446 |
| Alex McCown, that is not correct. The output from the transformer in a plasma globe is high frequency AC. The transformers in CRT screens give a DC output because they usually have a built in voltage doubler. | |
| Jonathan Yu. | Wednesday, 18th July 2007 10:24pm - No.1464 |
| Your propulsion systems would work as an alternative for today's vehicles. With fuel prices on the rise, EHD can change the way we use vehicle propulsion. Your materials are even easy to construct. If your propulsion systems were used more, we would save a lot of money. | |
| Aaron | Wednesday, 8th August 2007 9:25pm - No.1554 |
| Hey firstly thanks for the great website. Could you give me some dimensions, my transformer is a 10kv 25-30mA or alternately i have a flyback, which would you reconmend. Have they ever tried to use a small tesla coil as power source or would this just be over kill. | |
| RMCybernetics | Wednesday, 8th August 2007 10:06pm - No.1555 |
| Just start with something small like 70mm wide by 40mm high for each foil side. The output of the transformer used needs to be rectified (converted to DC) using high voltage diodes. This is simple for normal transformers but this would not work for a Tesla coil because of the high frequency and voltage. | |
| der strom | Sunday, 21st October 2007 12:07am - No.1997 |
| would it be possible to power an EHD thruster using the rectified output of an ignition coil? Or does the power have to be doubled or tripled? | |
| RMCybernetics | Sunday, 21st October 2007 2:10am - No.2000 |
| The rectified output of an ignition coil will be enough for a small lightweight EHDT. | |
| Cody | Friday, 30th November 2007 3:11am - No.2274 |
| what will happen if you use a regular (1000v) diode? ex. 1n4007 | |
| RMCybernetics | Friday, 30th November 2007 9:36am - No.2279 |
| It would be destroyed | |
| der strom | Friday, 30th November 2007 4:17pm - No.2281 |
| I found a flyback transformer in an old, color TV. It has a tripler built into it already, but the wires of the tripler are just sticking out. would the high voltage from the large red wire be DC already, or would the other wires coming out of the tripler have to be attached to something? thank you very much. | |
| RMCybernetics | Saturday, 1st December 2007 11:45pm - No.2284 |
| The large red wire is usually used to supply DC to the front of the CRT screen. I would assume the tripler part is a separate circuit to this. | |
| der strom | Wednesday, 5th December 2007 6:32pm - No.2290 |
| ok. so the current is already DC, but I still need a high voltage diode at the end of the red wire, right? | |
| RMCybernetics | Wednesday, 5th December 2007 6:35pm - No.2292 |
| No, The diodes are built into the device. | |
| der strom | Wednesday, 5th December 2007 11:53pm - No.2296 |
| Oh. well, that makes it easier. thanks! | |
| der strom | Thursday, 3rd January 2008 4:37pm - No.2387 |
| I am trying to build the flyback driver shown below, but I don't think the feedback coil is working. One of the times I hitched up the battery, I got one spark, but it didn't keep going. Do you have any ideas of what is wrong with the feedback coil? thanks! | |
| RMCybernetics | Friday, 4th January 2008 3:16am - No.2393 |
| I couldn't say | |
| der strom | Wednesday, 9th January 2008 12:43am - No.2421 |
| I found a flyback transformer in an old computer, but I can't find the input wires or pins. Do you think you could tell me where I can find them? Something else that might help is that I know I found it on your site somewhere, but I'm not sure where. Thanks!! | |
| der strom | Wednesday, 9th January 2008 12:49am - No.2422 |
| I found a pickture of a transformer much like mine. Here it is (hopefully this picture comes out right): | |
| der strom | Wednesday, 9th January 2008 4:12pm - No.2423 |
| sorry. didn't work. here: | |
| RMCybernetics | Wednesday, 9th January 2008 4:21pm - No.2424 |
| The pins are normally in a semicircle on the underside so they would normally fin to a PCB. Pictures must be JPEGS ONLY 200kb MAXIMUM FILE SIZE. Meet this spec or it will not accept your image | |
| der strom | Wednesday, 9th January 2008 4:39pm - No.2426 |
| Oh. I apoligize. But where does the power go in? | |
| RMCybernetics | Wednesday, 9th January 2008 6:30pm - No.2427 |
| Into those pins. You will have to determine which two input pins work best yourself. | |
| slimy | Friday, 7th March 2008 7:05pm - No.2589 |
| wud it work to put a bunch of ur 8kv diodes that r in ur shop in series or in parralel 2 charge a 30kv capasitor? | |
| RMCybernetics | Friday, 7th March 2008 10:12pm - No.2590 |
| Yes, It is better to also place a 10M resistor in parallel with each diode too if make a diode string. | |
| 445557/sp | Sunday, 9th March 2008 9:08pm - No.2598 |
| is it possalbe to power one with a van de grff and if it is how much power can you put in a ehd truster.will it generat more turst with more volts (and i mean more volts like 5 million volts)and more watts. | |
| RMCybernetics | Monday, 10th March 2008 11:14am - No.2600 |
| A VDG does not provide enough current to power an EHDT. More current or voltage makes more thrust upt to certain limits. Too much and energy is just wasted. Attatching multiple units together is an effective way. | |
| slimy | Monday, 10th March 2008 12:30pm - No.2604 |
| Thanks, RM. By the way, gr8 site! | |
| 405557/sp | Monday, 10th March 2008 10:07pm - No.2605 |
| well could an Wimshurst machine power an EHD machine.it creats HV and if spun fast enough it can creat high curent.and thier most be some more ways to desine an EHD to creat more power and to be more effient than the cunfiguation that u have up thier. and if an Wimshurst machine cant power it than wut else can power on of this other than wut u have posted. | |
| RMCybernetics | Tuesday, 11th March 2008 12:59am - No.2607 |
| No. Electrostatic generators do not generate enough current for an EHDT. There are many different ways to make and power a thruster. Google the term 'lifter' to find many examples. | |
| 405557/sp | Tuesday, 11th March 2008 1:04am - No.2608 |
| does it have to use aluminum couldnt somthing else work better like copper. copper is a much better conducter | |
| RMCybernetics | Tuesday, 11th March 2008 1:08am - No.2609 |
| The resistance of the material is not significant. Aluminum is used because it is relatively lightweight. | |
| 405557/sp | Tuesday, 11th March 2008 7:28pm - No.2615 |
| so would it be possable to hock up a stun gun to one im asking because i whant to have a light waight power source.and by the way you have a great website | |
| RMCybernetics | Wednesday, 12th March 2008 12:47pm - No.2621 |
| No, a stun gun is a low current source of AC pulses. I know of noone building a lifter that also lifts its own power supply so far. Some people have augmented them using helium filled ballons to counteract the weight of the PSU. The most lightweigt PSU I have used was made by removing the globe from a plasma globe and placing a HV diode or rectifier arrangement on the output so that it gives about 15kV DC (depending on size of original plasma globe). This will only give enough current to fly the tinyest of EHDT like shown in the video. | |
| 405557/sp | Wednesday, 12th March 2008 6:28pm - No.2623 |
| ok thanks for answering my questions. i now got some money t spend and gonna tinker with some of this stuff ill share iny thing new with you. i dont know how i found this site but im happy i did this is a great site | |
| physist | Wednesday, 26th March 2008 11:43am - No.2649 |
| Hey im currently buideing quite a descent power supply at ruffly 50kv DC but quite low ampige since i am going from mains is that anoth to power a descent sized one and if not could u sugest a power supply design that would give alot more power i was thinking of makeing a much larger one useing 3 of them attached to gether and my final question is there a formula u could give me to find the thrust of givin size voltage and current. thanks | |
| RMCybernetics | Wednesday, 26th March 2008 1:51pm - No.2652 |
| The mains will provide way more than enough power for lifter experiments unless you are planning to lift something like a car! The simplest way is to use a voltage multiplier to step up the mains. Formula available here | |
| Graymalkin | Sunday, 4th May 2008 11:50am - No.2745 |
| How do I use a power supply, as this is a learning curve for me. I get the use of a plasma ball cpu, but mine is only 15 volts! Will this be enough? Thanks | |
| RMCybernetics | Sunday, 4th May 2008 8:41pm - No.2746 |
| The plasma ball PSU steps its input voltage (12V) up to thousands of volts. You need thousands of volts DC for an EHD lifter to work | |
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